Texas Constitutional Convention Updates

Summary of 4 July 1997 Meeting (Rough Notes)

Delegates now seated. Nominations for permanent secretary: Sara Lowe, by Donald Henson,seconded by Greg Scales no other nominations, Childress motion to close, Donald Henson seconded vote to close, unanimous vote to accept Sara Lowe, unanimous

job of transfer of files to convention committee from C4 committee will go to secretary

nomination for chairman of constitutional convention Monty Barnett nominated Wes, declined by Wes Duncan - nominated Henson, second by Cloyce Williams Mike Angwin to close, second by Greg Scales vote unanimous, vote to accept Don Henson as chairman of convention also unanimous

Henson: appreciation expressed for Wes Burnett's efforts to bring the CC about

Decision to accept late delegates: had three citizens who wished to be delegates. Motion to take case by case the issues of applying for delegate status - by Wes, second by Childress, no discussion, vote unanimous for.

Robert Sudbury - had been in NJ, was unable to get his affidavit in time, would like to be delegate. Wes move to accept him as delegate, Monty second, vote, none opposed.

Charlie Doreck, not sure until last minute he could come, from Cuero, Texas, entertain motion to accept him, Cloyce motion, Mike Angwin second, vote to accept passed.

Point of order by Archie Lowe to state your name when speaking

Larry Falsitto, orig. from Ohio, came in January to Texas, homeless, living on the street trying to get work, wants to be involved in this, feels God brought him here, no family, just wants to be a Texan, free and supporting independence Mike Angwin, asked Larry if he had been here since January 97 and if he intended to become a permanent resident of Texas, and he said yes to both motion to accept, David Sanders second, discussion, Henson read his email to Wes Burnett into the record, vote unanimous

Jerry Poole, wants to see Texas free and independent, from Gladewater, Texas motion to accept him by Wes,second by Childress, discussion - Wes asked if he was willing to rescind his delegation to another delegate (Mrs. Childress), and both he and Mrs. Childress agreed, discussion by Wes of delegate requirements, arbitrary by C4 committee, convention free to do what they choose as to delegate qualifications

amendment offered that Mrs. Childress not be removed,that no effect to here dlegate status, by Mike Angwin, second by Charlie, vote for unanimous

vote to accept Poole as delgate, unanimous for

Judy Pool, Gladewater, Charlie Dunclan motion to accept, Angwin second, discussion amend motion to be covered under same circum as Mr. Pool, by Childress, second Charlie Duncan, vote for unanimous vote to accept unanimous for

Ray Wanjura, Cuero, since convention in 1995, children future of this nation, ready to do whatever is needed, thought his position with provi. govt would be conflict of interest, will abstain from voting if needed Sanders motion, Subury second, discussion vote to accept unanimous for

Convention now called to order by Chair.

motion by Duncan, that all business doneprior to banging of gavel be ratified by seated delegates, motion seconded by Scales, vote unanimous for

will entertain motion to include other officers, motion by Wes, second by Duncan,to seat a vicechairman, discussion of duties vote unanimous for

Ray Wanjura, point of order to complete listing of offices Archie Lowe, motion to seat a parliamentarian, treasurer, public relations seconded by Sudbury discussion, vote for, all but Mike Angwin

friendly amendment to make parl. also sargent of arms by Wanjura, second by Monty discussion - Sudbury, why do we need one? ans. by Ray, if anyone is disrespectful of the conventional body or its proceedings, can be removed by Sargent of Arms. Is there a conflict of interest, can't eject himself, by Holt. Erickson: chair must give order to eject disorderly person. vote to combine, vote for, all but Mike Angwin

Motion to open nomination, Monty, Sanders second vote unanimous

Nominate Greg Scales by Monty, Sanders second, discussion by Scales as to when he would be unable to vote - if he became chair. Nominate Charlie Duncan by Ray Wanjura, declined. vote for unanimous

Motion to oopennomination for parl/SA, Cloyce Williams, Sudbury second vote for, Angwin against Motion to nom. Wanjura, without title, second by Mr. Childress Sudbury nom. Sanders, second Mike Angwin Vote by raising of hands - 13 for Wanjura, 3 for Sanders Ray Wanjura is now parl./SA.

Motion to open nom. for treasurer by Duncan,second Holt vote unaninous, but for Angwin

Mrs. Childress nom. by Charlie Doreck, second Sudbury motion to close noms. by Wanjura, second Sud vote unanimous for

Motion to open nom. for public relations officer point of order by Lowe, not necessary to open nom.for each office unless new or not on agenda Sanders nom. Robert Kesterson, second Monty Barnett, discussion of duties by Charlie Duncan,PR officer for C4 Holt nom. Burnett, second by Mr. Pool Discussion - Wanjura, should this be an individual, or a group of delegates? Perhaps a committee should perform that function. Point of order to vote down present nominations, andthen reopen the floor by Lowe. Discussion by Angwin, don't think we need a committee.

All in favor of none of the above, two no votes. In favor of Kesterson, no one but Angwin. Motion to amend office of PR to be committee rather than individual, move to establish a commitee for purposes of publicity and advertising, by Wes, second Szanders vote for by majority, two no votes Wanjura, motion to make C4 committe into PR committee, second by Childress. Discussion - Wes,Sanders, Angwin says no committee, need only one voice before the press, Wes says comm. can be helpful, Mike says coordination not one of our demonstrated strengths, Sanders, Wanjura move to table motion, second by Duncan. No discussion. Vote to table pass with two no votes.

Next item on agenda - future of the C4 committee. Wanjura, motion to transfer the C4 members from the C4 and into the PR committee, Burnett - some of those members already have new offices, Monty says restrict it to two members. Wanjura, move to suspend the rules, seconded by Sudbury, vote unanimous for. C4 comm. has agreement with Sherwood Historic Assn.to rent this building, how will that affect dissolution of C4 committee? Suggest that we handpick a comm. for the PR effort - how large? Two people. Who will be responsible for the agreement for renting the facilities? Question is delegation of responsibility. Motion by Wanjura to dissolve the C4 committee, Sanders amend to transfer all the obligations of that comm. to the officers of the CC committee, Angwin second, Holt asks for clarification, Childress says it's about personal responsibility, rephrase to transfer to delegates of CC, Angwin second, Wanjura accepted friendly amendment. Holt says requires unan. vote. Motion by Angwin to require unan. vote, Mr. Childress second, Wanjura accepted as friendly amendment. Discussion - Larry, clarify the responsibility of the C4 t5o Sherwood, Wes says will start tomorrow $50 day, take care of building and grounds, keep it clean, etc.,, whether here or not as delegates. Cloyce Williams, amend that if you resign as delegate, no obligation, but Wanjura says can't renege on personal responsibility if resign. Wes says extends to future meetings as well. Monty calls for the question as amended.

Vote to accept as amended - done.

CHair opens floor to other admin. business. Motion to table did not include not establishing a PR committee, whichwas voted and passed. Call for the question on Wanjura's motion to transfer C4 to CC, motion defeated. motion to solicit volunteers for the PR comm by Wes, POO by Wanjura. Move that convention authorize chair to appoint chair of PR sub-comm. and solicit volunteers for that comm, second wanjura. Discussion, friendly amendment to allow members thereafter to appoint their own chair by Holt, accepted by Wesand Wanjura. Holt that activities of comm. take place outside convention, and that non-del can be members. Sanders to call the question. Vote for with two no votes.

Motion to recess by Lowe, second Sanders, vote unanimous, recessed at 3:10pm.

CC reconvened at 3:23pm. CC addressed by delegate Lowe of how years of study brought him to knowledge of truth,and how that made him responsible for following through, that info put out by media concerning patriots being uneducated is not true, we ARE informed and educated. Bill of rights,not privileges, God given, Section 2, Art 1 - rights shall remain forever inviolate, meaning free from violation, alteration, desecration, profaning. Yet has been amended over eight times since 1876. Decl of Indep from1836 - reasons for the decl. Powers of US congress in their constitution once read and the wrong clearly seen, cannot turn back from the truth. Results of evil rulers - warrants and writs of attachment on citizens who should be free and sovereign, not property of state. Authority of people has been usurped, but const. and bill of rights has been corrupted. Our task is now to create something very simple, that will protect our freedom. We should limit government, but not by 500 pages of loopholes. Must restore education, money system, must educate the people so they know the truth. Encourage delegates to adhere to RRO, be courteous, submit written motions if possible, must preserve the record for posterity. Be prepared for disagreement but don't let it divide us, that is the enemy's idea. Don't go away. Let's establish committees, get them working, and then bring them together. Once you know the truth, you can never go back. Do what you can to create for the nation of Texas a lasting document that cannot be corrupted.

Comments by Chair and Sudbury about availability of Dictionary and Black's.

Request from James Gamble, to become delegate, 14 years old, lives in Sherwood, thought that you had to be 21 to be a delegate, his uncle Wes Burnett taught him about independence of Texas, knows the people of the community. Question from Angwin about his citizenry, Motion to accept by Angwin, second by Alonzo Martinez, discussion. Ray Wanjura says under common law he is over 13 and legal adult, but that is not the usual rule - Angwin says if he can be tried by de facto as an adult, he can serve. Vote - for, unanimous.

Motion that quorum of convention be defined as 50% plus one, seated and assembled on July 4, 1997. POO - how many will be here Monday, and will that affect quorum? Seconded by Sanders. Discussion - must take it one day at a time. Wanjura says 50% plus one of total number of delegates. Wes - clarify as delegates seated and assembled on July 4, 1997. Wanjura objects, since if 50% of body resigns, can't conduct business. Erickson asks can we specify session, not day? So if we adjourn for two weeks, can they re-define the quorum dynamically if several resign? Orig. motion repeated. Amended to strike the date and replace it with "delegates seated and assembled at the last regular session of the convention." Currently 25 delegates. Lowe says can't monkey with the quorum, Cloyce agrees, can't do it day-by-day, a minority can pass stuff, Sanders disagrees, if too many get mad and leave, could only adjourn. Wanjura says he agrees with motion as amended. Cindy Williams - not a delegate, believes people will continue to suppport CC. Childress says must have definitive number of people. Duncan says would this be affected by a declining number, i.e., is last session the last day of the session? Wanjura says should be on total number of delegates, period, not on deminishing number of delegates.

Wes says change to "50% plus one of del seated to the constitutional convention." If delegates are added or resign, number increases or decreases. Kesterson suggests that no del. be added after this weekend, that 50% of del. is insufficient number, and one other I couldn't hear. Larry says he likes 50%+1 at last session b/c this must be written. Barnett asks about those del. who are not here but have affidavits on file. Duncan says some may not be able to attend all sessions, b/c they have other commitments - have jobs, families, businesses, must be realistic. Angwin says del. may resign and thenbe reinstated at later time - will have to be put off for later. Call for question: vote - passed, one no vote.

Motion by Angwin that del. may temporarily suspend his delegate status to remove himself from quorum requirement, and then can be re-instated when able to attend. POO by Lowe that motion be restated. Motion failed for lack of second.

Suggestion by Lowe to place rules ideas with parl. for consideration.

Motion by Burnett that no del. be seated to this convention after Sunday, July 6th, at the closingof that session. Second by Wanjura. Holt, does that mean no replaced ...? "To allow for the replacement of delegates who resignafter that date." (amendment) Sudbury says may have many more show up after this hits the news tomorrow, and we need to make sure they are cits. Amended by Kesterson that anyone having filed an affidavit be included in that number, not accepted. Vote - passed, one no vote.

Son of Mike Angwin wants to be delegate, Benjiman, is 14. Motion to accept by Wanjura, second by Angwin. Barnett asks if he's read constitution, says no, has read US constitution, Lowe asks if he will be willing to stay up late at night and read, says yes. Vote - passed unan.

Burnett says wants to keep working, so does Angwin, and others. Motion to recess for 15 min. by Lowe, seconded by Wanjura. Vote unanimous, recessed at 4:26pm. Reconvened at 4:42pm.

Announcement by Burnett that you can stay on the grounds, sleep in the building, no shower, must keep building andgrounds maintained. Needs to know so can inform Sheriff.

Ann. by Sanders asking if all delegates have a disk on CC. Barnett - are we going to get down to the constitution? Motion that sec. be authorized to notify those del. who have failed to attend five sessions to request their intent, so that CC can make a decision concerning their status, by Burnett. Second by Childress. POO - Wanjura, can accept somethings by consent w/o motions. Lowe, amend to reduce to three, accepted. Sudbury, amend to give due notice and grace, just suggestion. Amend by Holt to three consecutive sessions, second by ? Wanjura, clarification, means that no proxy was sent, and no notice given of intended absence. Burnett says haven't decided that yet. Sanders - call the question. Vote on amend to consecutive - vote passed. Clarification on meeting vs. session - are the same thing, from meeting called to adjourned is one session. Vote - passes unan.

Motion by C. Duncan that the convention adopt RRO modern (see written),second by Sudbury. Discussion of versions. Lowe - amend to strike "used in the relaxed mode, ...." Not accepted as friendly amendment. Second by Doreck. Angwin - why not accepted? Wanjura - oppose both motion and amend, have already adopted parl. procedure, don't need set of written rules, use common courtesy. Can just use it as a guideline. Burnet - haven't adopted parl. proc yet. Falzitto - concur. Cloyce - having parliamentarian should mean parl. proc. Scales - could let the chair decide, can go with strict rules if he sees it's necessary. Lowe - if adopt rules, we are accepting discipline from the body at large. Sudbury - supports Lowe's amend b/c CC makeup could change over next two days, and this is a grave matter we are working on. Hamilton - says we shouldn't be legislating, we should be using common law. Angwin - call the question. Vote on amendment - opposed, not passed. Discussion on main amendment. We have already been following parl. proc. Call the question. Vote - passed, seven no notes.

Sam Hamilton - arrived late, from Baycliff, being seated as delegate.

Move that del. must appear in person in order to participate in the actions of this CC by Burnett. Second by Sanders. Friendly amend that no proxies will be allowed - by Wanjura. Accepted. Wanjura - should not suspend the privilege of proxy, don't know what might happen. Lowe - what is your intention by not allowing proxies? Wes - experience. Falzitto - right of every person to have a rep and to educate that person on how you want him/her to proceed. Barnett - could we limit # of sessions that someone could send proxy to? Wanjura - let's get on with it, getting too bogged down. Vote - 12 for, 12 against. Chair votes no, proxies will be allowed.

Motion that we rewrite the 1836 const., by Barnett. Angwin seconds it. Lowe - may be limiting CC by using 3-branch govt pattern, must be allowed to fly mentally. Wanjura - motion to recess the session for off-the-record comments. Lowe seconds. Barnett - clarify that by rewrite we ... POO - can't discuss motion to recess. Vote - passes, Wanjura has floor. Falzitto - this is whole new ballgame, don't want bad press here, want new const. for nation of Texas. Sanders - said we should use the 1836 as a guideline, not just rewrite it, is the last lawfully binding doc we have in Texas. Barnett - will reword to "use as a guideline for discussion" Duncan - agrees with Wanjura, and with Lowe that we can do better, even though I have worked on a draft from the 1836 const. Must not be bound by that model. Wanjura - how many complete drafts of a const. are here? Let's take the shortest one and work on adding to it. Angwin - need some sort of agenda, framework, to keep order, could go through it section by section,would provide sequence. Childress - hears limitations, wants no limits on this body. Hamilton - first step is to define this govt, and build on that basis. Sanders - wasn't suggesting limits, was suggesting guideline, framework, to tear down and rebuild, to have a starting place. Otherwise, it will take us forever to get started. Wanjura - was convention called on the basis of peoples' right to call this convention, per Section 2, Art 1, from current state constitution? Greg Scales - reads proclamation. Wanjura - it must be a republican form of govt. Defined - representative, where people have the final decision, govt does the legwork and people have final say. Hamilton - says 3 branches of govt is republican form, if it alters, it isn't republican. Burnett - if we use the 36 const, mention it, we create problems. Angwin - not using it, just using the sequence or form and order of it. Barnett - haven't heard an alternative yet. Scales - personally oppose the structure of the 36 const., decl of rights moved, could use a synthesis of all the Texas constitutions. Hamilton - let's draft a const. based on the wisdom of our Texas forefathers. Barnett - withdraw the motion.

Lowe - debates must be limited to the impending question, and member can't speak more than twice on subject, and can't speak again until all have had opportunity to speak.

Burnett a- request that those who have brought consts. to convention raise their hands. Mike Angwin, Burnett, Hamilton, Barnett, Wanjura, Scales, Henson.

Motion by Angwin to use US const, failed for lack of second.

Motion by Falzitto that when we formulate this constitution, it be based on a republican form of govt as opposed to a democracy, i.e., rule by law and not by men. Second by Cloyce Williams. Kesterson - not needed b/c of authority for calling this convention. Wanjura - motion is redundant in nature. Sanders and Lowe - read definitions for republican form of govt from Blacks and Websters. Scales and Burnett - agree with the motion. Call the question. Friendly amendment - to strike the second half of the statement "rule by law and not by men." Accepted, then changed his mind, rejected friendly amendment. SEconded by Sanders. Burnett - against amendment. Vote on amendment - tied, chair votes against amendment, defeated. Call for roll call - 11 for, 13 against. Call for vote on motion - 12 for, 11 against.

Request that those who have const. drafts make them available to delegates who haven't read them. (Burnett) Suggest that those with drafts get up and discuss their drafts, 2 min. max, and that we then break for dinner, and return to discuss same. (Wanjura) Angwin - motion (as written) that we consider elements of our constitution in the following order: preamble, foundations, decl of rights, the congress, law, powers & limitations, the presidency, the judiciary, the courts, the people, revenues, general provisions, counties, rangers, amendments, schedule of progression. Second by Falzitto. Suggestion by Wanjura that motion be changed as follows: that we begin work on the constitution starting with the preamble. Discussion - Scales says it's the hardest part to write, Duncan says he doesn't like preambles, like Mr. Lowe says, this is the time to do something brand new, without a model to follow, need to discuss the main issues, like do we even need a congress? Angwin says preamble just states the reasons, answers the question why. Sanders says we know why, but the people of Texas may not know why we wrote a new const. Sudbury agrees, Erickson calls for the vote. Vote - passed by voice vote.

Move that the chair appoint a committee of no less than five delegates to draft a preamble to be the first order of business in the morning on Saturday, July 5th. By Burnett. SEcond ? Friendly amendment by Sudbury, withdrawn. Call the question - vote passed.

Move that the chair appoint a committee of no less than five del to draw up a list of issues to form a guideline for discussion by Angwin - died for lack of second.

Move that those who have draft proposals have them ready to distribute in the morning by Burnett. Charles Duncan second. Discussion on how to make copies on July 5th. Vote passed, one no vote.

Discussion regarding smokers, that they stay downwind from the non-smokers, which is according to common law.

Motion by Burnett to recess for one hour and 30 min. Second by James Gamble. Vote - passed, one no vote.

Return from recess - chair appoints PR chair as Robert Kesterson, Charlie Duncan as volunteer. Chair appoints Ray Wanjura as chair for preamble, Angwin, Sudbury, Falzitto, Doreck. Chair addresses body, desires to adjourn until 0900 hours. Motion made and seconded, vote passed with one no vote. Session adjourned until tomorrow. Note: after adjournment, Mr. Martinez was substituted for Mr. Falzitto on the preamble committee.

Convention Update Index

Copyright at Common Law, West El Paso Information Network, 1997